ADVICE
The people who I interview always offer a lot of really useful information and I feel like in Season Two people offered very clear advice. So, I compiled some of it into this handy list:
1. Have a real and clear ask.
Jessica Gaynelle Moss recounted how,
I was just doing this project with, um, the City of Pittsburgh. And they’re, this is so tangential, and I don't even wanna talk about it, [LAUGHS] but they're, um, reinstalling this piece of artwork. Uh, public art that is in their permanent collection that is a symbol of hate for a lot of people, because it was previously installed in a neighborhood that was in transition, um, that displaced hundreds and hundreds of Black people and Black families and is made by this white artist (this isn’t enough about it). Um, and, uh, part of my role is to talk to Black artists about it. And I was like, "This is it. Let's ask them for $20,000 to do one piece in response- like, let's come up with ideas. How can we, how can we use the position that we're in to leverage? What, what we want, what our needs are, what our goals are. Um, let's hear it."
And I came to the city. I'm like, this is what they're probably gonna ask or be prepared, da, da, da. Well, then we get down the line with the artists and they're like, “We're mad." And I'm like, “I know we're mad, but like, what are we gonna do about it?" And like, we wanna be mad and I'm like, that's, that is your act of resistance and I respect it.
And if you wanna, like, you know, there are again, so many ways to play this. If you don't want this white money, that's totally fine. But this white money is on the table, and you could take it if you want it. Just kind of have to have an ask. I think that's how we often operate in these white spaces Kelly. If we go to Oxford and we're like, “Look, we'll do that, but pay us.” Hmm. They might pay you but just ask! I feel like so many people drop or fumble a bag because they don't have a real ask. And sometimes your ask could be like, “I don't want you to be here. I just want you to get me the money." That, you know, just like have an ask, be really real. Think about what it is that you want. It's just a means to an end. But also, are you willing to do whatever it is that they're gonna ask you to do to take that?”[i]
2. Philanthropy is a popularity contest. When you get one large grant, use it to get another.
Moss told me that the thing about grant writing is, “… you do it right once, and you get a big one, then you just pull the language. It's so much easier. Once you get a big one. And once you get a big one too, it like legitimizes it to everyone else that you're worth investing in. This the philan- the, like philanthropy is just fucked. It really is. And it is like a popularity contest.”[ii]
Katriona Beales backed that up when she spoke about how she leveraged a $50,000 grant from the Wellcome Trust to get a grant from Arts Council England.[iii]
3. Get used to rejection. It’s not personal.
Moss told me that,
… what my job has been for maybe the past five years is that every day I work on three grants. This doesn't mean that I'm applying to three new ones every day. This just means I'm dedicating three in the queue at all times. So as soon as one goes out, literally another one comes in. And so, if you imagine I do this every day. Um, I get more rejection letters than I think like a, a normal person should [LAUGHS] like have to be confronted with, like, it is constantly, um, letters of rejection in my inbox, up in my phone, like it is just a part of it. And it is not personal, right? It's not about me. It is maybe a superpower to be in that position and know that I'm not taking any of these personally. It's not about me.[iv]
I heard from someone once that if you get one thing out of every ten applications, you’re doing well. Once I got rejected from five things in one day, and then a friend offered me an exhibition. I try to keep that in mind. I’ve found getting used to rejection and knowing it’s not about how good you or your work or your ideas are is really important.
4. Learn the funder’s language and speak in it.
What it is about is if you have successfully mirrored the language the funders are using to speak about their priorities. Moss told me,
It's just that I'm not using the specific dialect that this person wants to hear me speak in. So really, it's about how can I figure out what your language is? So, I can say it in your language. And that is often unique to the funder. But once you get it and it clicks and sometimes it really feels like you're saying the same thing, but you really just have to, like, they maybe said something just differently. You're like, “What if we had a retreat for Black moms?" And they're like, "Or it could be an event that supports Black mothers." And you're like, “Yeah, an event that supports Black mothers." You know, like it, um, you- once you learn that, then it just becomes so much easier.[v]
5. Learn how to talk about your projects in different ways so you can tailor it to whom you’re talking to.
This requires an agility in understanding your work. Moss’ advice was to, “… know how to talk about your projects in like: a cute way; in like a little bit longer way; in like a way that's like digestible to the layman; in a way that could say include all of the buzz- you know, like how are the diff- know how to say your thing in all of the different languages too. So that depending on whom you're speaking to, you can tailor it, right. Um, that's really key.”
6. Learn to talk about yourself and your work succinctly. Articulate your work and make it clear how you want it taken up. Make it legible in a place where people can find it, not just social media.
Moss mentioned this reflecting back on how the School of the Art Institute of Chicago taught us,
… how to talk about yourself, cause you're just constantly talking about yourself the whole time. Like every class you have to introduce yourself and like what you're in- you know, did you find? That is just, I feel like a part of it. And it felt like when I graduated, I was so prepared to be in a space and, and um, very, um, succinctly talk about who I am and my work. And that feels like a real superpower. Because you see a lot of people really struggle with, you know, like, “Let's build, I got these ideas", you know? And yes, and, um, it is so different when somebody comes to you with a very clear ask. And um, so I encourage people to have a clear ask about what they're doing and know how to talk about their work.[vi]
Dr. Joana Joachim spoke to this when I asked her about how artists could access critical writing and archival documentation. Dr. Joachim told me,
I think that there's two pieces to this. The first piece is what do artists themselves have to do? And, as an art historian, as a curator, as a museologist, as an educator, I think it's exceedingly important for artists to learn to articulate their work and make clear how they want their work to be taken up through their artist statement, through their project statements, et cetera. And so that's one piece of it, making sure that you have a landing place, right, that is substantial. Because, while having an Instagram account or a TikTok or whatever is one way of being visible, it is not, in my estimation, a way of being legible. So that's one thing. Making yourself legible in a certain way for art critics and reviewers and whatever, to then take it and run with it.[vii]
Dr. Joachim followed that up by saying,
7. When you have an exhibition ask if it’ll have a catalog. Collect and save documentation of your work. Build a personal archive. Donate these materials to donation-based archives like Artexte or Chicago Artist Files and update your files.
Specifically, Dr. Joachim said,
The other piece for artists is to name that, right? Um, when they are being approached for exhibitions or they're applying for an exhibition ask, “Is there gonna be a catalogue? Can I have a copy of it?” da, da, da, all those things. And to build a personal archive. And now I go into my like, "Well, we have to promote Artexte" speech, but, um, having an artist file at, at a place like Artexte where you, and, and keeping it up to date where, you know, you put in your CV or a list of the exhibitions that you've been part of and, uh, you know, your, your artist statement and any kind of document visual documentation of your work, like, you can just print off photos of your work, right? Having that is a way of building a legacy and having, you know, a place for people to then go and learn about your work and write about your work. Because if there's no information about your work, then people can't write about it. So that's one piece, that's the piece that artists I believe can control to a certain degree…
So, there is a part of that that artists can control. And that's to making sure that you're clear about which conversations you wanna be part of and what your work is about and being explicit and direct and open about that and making your work legible in that way.
And I don't mean, like, spoon feeding people. “Well, you know, my work is about da da da", but making sure that if your work is opaque for a reason that you make it clear that your work is opaque for a reason, not just saying nothing.[viii]
In terms of what critical art writers can do, Dr. Joachim said,
8. Do the work. Sit down and study the work and write about it. Take it up in a rigorous manner.
Specifically, Dr. Joachim told me,
The next piece is a larger, more systemic problem that no one person can solve, right? Um, and that's why I'm constantly advocating for more critical writing. Um, because that's when folks like myself and curators and people who work for art magazines or people who work for cultural media or whatever to do the actual work, right?
And not, and, and by do the actual work, I don't mean contact whomever who's busy and exhausted and ask them for yet another interview so that they do the work of telling you about their work, but to actually sit down and study the work and write about it. Um, and, and that's, you know, a small portion of, of why I became an educator because there just aren't enough of us, right? To date, there are two art historians who have art history positions in Canada, me and my advisor. Right? And then there are curators across the country who are doing fantastic work, but again, like, I could count them on two hands, right? There's not that many, not enough of us, not nearly enough of us to be able to write this whole history.
And so, the onus then is on non-Black art workers, art writers, reviewers, critics, art, historians, curators, whatever to do the work of actually writing about this stuff. And that's part of the reason why I became a professor is because I want to contribute to training people to think about Black work in that way, not just be like, “Okay, here's the Black artist making Black stuff” check mark. And then, and then interview them, and end it there. But to actually begin to have a discourse around that work and take it up, in a rigorous manner…
I do think that there are things that are more systemic and outside of an individual's power, but, and that's, you know, why I'm constantly sort of on my little soapbox, [LAUGHS] arguing and, and, and yelling at people to write more things, or, you know, do more conferences or whatever. But it's because all of that can't rely on the artists and their artists file at Artexte, right? That needs to be taken up in a larger context.”[ix]
Speaking of recognizing the emotional toll it takes on people when you, “…contact whomever who's busy and exhausted and ask them for yet another interview”[x], Cecilia Wee gave some really clear technical advice in response to my question, “…how you, um, you collect data and stories from people but in a way that doesn't instrumentalize their, um, specifically their vulnerabilities and pain.”[xi] (having lifted the words from “We Need Collectivity Against Structural and Institutional Racism in the Cultural Sector”, an article co-written by Wee, Jade Montserrat, Michelle Williams Gamaker and Tae Ateh and published in Arts Professional on 24 June 2020.)[xii] Wee told me,
9. In working with people, the setup is vital. Tell them what will occur and who will have access to that information. Acknowledge what people have shared with you, and connect with that, don’t just follow procedure. When you finalise the work, carry the spirit of what the session was and, “…know the decisions that you make about editing and any challenges that you have around the edit are ones that you believe in.”[xiii]
In more detail, Wee told me,
… whenever I've done these, these sessions with people and you know, it's like the setup is so vital. So, like just trying to say, “Okay, these are the community participation guidelines.” Like, "This is how we're gonna work.” Um, "This is how we're gonna use the data. This is like the conversation. This is who's gonna be in the conversation, like, from our end.” Um, "We will not directly quote you. And if we, if we do end up quoting anybody from the session, then we'll check in to see if they want that quote to be used.” Like all of those things.
So, it is really like, it's really technical, but I think- and, and also just being like, "You can withdraw at any time. Do you wanna have a chat?" Et cetera, et cetera. And just like giving people a super clear understanding of like what they're getting into. Um, and just trying in that space to kind of like create a spirit of generosity and just being like, "Okay, cool.” Like, you know, acknowledging the fact that when someone has shared something, then you're just like, "Okay, do we just need to, like, acknowledge that?" Take a break, whatever we need to do, like, depending on the situation.
And that's, I guess, that's, I'm talking about like, you know, we can all be like, “Alright, we want these things to happen. We can make these demands, we're so strong", et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time, when we're in these sessions, then the reality is, like, people are sharing stuff that is so deep and so horrible, You know? And you gotta just like connect with that and not necessarily be like, "Okay, right, I need to move on to the next question and da da da.” So yeah. I think that's, and, and to, you know, when you are, uh, when you're finalizing those sorts of reports, like to make sure that you know the decisions that you make about editing and any challenges that you have around the edit are ones that you believe in. And that kind of like carry out the spirit of, of what the session was. Because you never know when someone's gonna challenge it. Especially in the edit. [LAUGHS][xiv]
Now let’s talk about money. Firstly,
10. Write the budget differently to ensure you pay artists a fair wage.
This is something that Shannon Stratton instituted both at ThreeWalls, a gallery in Chicago she co-founded, and at the Museum of Arts and Design while she was the Chief Curator there. Stratton told me,
… when I went to M.A.D. [Museum of Arts and Design], I instituted that we paid artist fees there. It's actually not that hard. You just, like, write the budget differently. You're like, well, now part of the show budget is a $5,000 artist fee. That's just, we just put that in there. So that's cool, right? You know, like we might have to not do something else, like, or, you know, but this is the budget, and this is what's in here and we can talk about how to make a show outta that.[xv]
Part of this is assuring that the artist you want to work for is able to have access to the resources they need to make the work, and prioritising this at times means you have to de-prioritise something else. I spoke about this with Kirstine Schiess Højmose, director of Aarhus Center for Visual Art, in October 2018. Schiess Højmose said,
There will always be someone behind you to take your job or your place in an exhibition… if I ask you to do an exhibition and apologize for not being able to pay you but say, you know, that it's nice publicity. Then if you say, “No, I'm not going to do that.” there could be another artist waiting behind you to take the opportunity. But also, maybe if you said “No.” I would think, “Damn, I want her in this show! I have to find some money.” Or maybe I have to cancel the show this year and apply for some extra funding to do it next year. Maybe it would be good because we do stuff even if we don't have money. Like with our residency program. If we only get half the money we applied for, we decide to just scale it down, and the part-time employees will need to work a little less, and I'll need to work a little bit more. Instead of saying, “Ok we can't do it. We don't have the money for it. We have to wait until we find it.” Maybe if more people started saying no, and started being a bit more critical and caring about working conditions in general, that would also help. It could mean that we would do less exhibitions, but artists would be paid and art administrators wouldn’t be as stressed.[xvi]
Artists would be paid a fair wage and art administrators wouldn’t be as stressed? This sounds like a win-win. So,
11. Don’t be embarrassed to talk about money. And don’t be afraid to ask for a fair wage, even if you have access to external money.
This is something Katriona Beales said to me,
I feel in a way that pragmatism about needing to earn money is very helpful. In that I don't feel embarrassed about having these conversations with anyone. I'm just like, "Can't pay me? Can't do it! Bye!" [LAUGHS]
Um, whereas I know that for some people that I know who maybe, have got some external money from somewhere, um, that they find those conversations trickier. But I wish they didn't. Please, if you, if you do have, um, you know, if you do have some external resources that mean that theoretically you don't need to charge for your work, please do charge for your work because it helps change the landscape for everyone. Whereas if you can, if you can do it as an act of solidarity for people who need to earn money from art practice, then please, please charge. Like, it frustrates me that, um, the unpaid labour thing is kind of propped up by people who are wealthy.[xvii]
Which brings us to:
12. Money is no issue for wealthy people. If you are gonna ask for 5,000, you should ask for 20,000. If you're gonna ask for 20,000, you should ask for a 100,000.
Jessica Gaynelle Moss told me some great funding advice. She told me,
… as someone who has worked in philanthropy and sat at the other side of the table, I, for so long felt like, and I've had roles in development, I've had roles in fundraising and stewardship, you know, like I, I thought I could ask for money.
But when you're sitting at the other side of the table and it's your wallet, um, it, it just became so clear to me that money is really no issue. And that if you are gonna ask for 5,000, you should ask for 20,000. Um, and if you're gonna ask for 20,000, you should ask for a hundred thousand, because the way that these people think about money is just so...
Like COVID-19 happens and all of a sudden one foundation has 5 million that they're willing to contribute to the initiatives. 5 million dollars comes out overnight! And all, and all the staff is like Fu- wait! [LAUGHS] Where did this money come from?! And we're scraping in our own individual budgets, trying to, like, pull money for just like this initiative or just this in, you know, to support Black artists and they're like, “This is all the money y'all got this year, make it work. We can't wait to see the Black artists that you uplift."
COVID 19 happens: 5 million dollars? So, then it's like, oh, oh this, this bag is so big. It is so big. It is so much larger than I can even envision. And all of our hands could really be in it, but these folks are just so keen on keeping it here and hoarding it and preventing and dictating what goes where at what time. Um, and so unwilling to really deputize any of that, or really, um, um, disperse it in ways that could be really helpful, right. Um, or empowering. This is just a part of this, uh, gate keeping. And so, I have no problem, uh, asking for more money than even what you think is what you should be asking for.
Also, um, [SIGH] when I was working at the Pittsburgh Foundation, one of the things that we started as a, which is a precedent now, is that, um, each applicant for just filling out an application gets $500 as a small grant and that threw the whole foundation upside down. Um, and this is what I mean - slightest needle, right? Like the little, tiniest thing. 500, what do we have, like less than 200 applicants every year. It's nothing, you know? It is nothing to them. And the staff when our team was arguing that this is what, you know, like this is something that we'd like to do. Um, senior leadership at the foundation was like, “$500, it’s gonna be embarrassing. They're gonna feel disrespected if we send 'em a check for only $500. What are... what can you even do with $500?" Like, how much does a gallon of milk cost at the grocery store these days? [LAUGHS] You know, so outta touch, just so... it's like Kanye now, you know? Like stop trying to talk to us like, you're the people. You're so removed from the people you don't, you... you know, it's just, it's complete disconnect. Like you live in such a different reality where you don't understand the value of money... which is what your whole career is built upon, so what are you even doing, you know? And then we got all of these letters from people who were like, “$500 - I was able to pay my rent." Like, "I paid a student loan deposit.” Like "I, I was able to contribute to start the project", you know? And like this influx of letters came in. So happy to compile them into one PDF and send them directly to that senior leader who was like, “Oh my goodness. Wow. Well, you guys, you were right. My word.” [LAUGHS] You know? It's like, uh, so disconnected... You know, this is a Theaster [Gates] thing. Don't be afraid to ask for money. [LAUGHS] Don't be afraid.”
And one last piece of financial advice from Moss:
13. Pursue relationships with people not institutions and follow them when they change jobs.
Moss said,
And, and the relationship is also key, right? Like often with these big funders, you have a program officer or something. And the program officers don't always stay with the foundations, but they often stay within philanthropy. And when you've had a good working relationship, those relationships stick. Um, and there could be future opportunities regardless of what foundation they might be with, you know? So, I always think that it's important to continue those relationships and stay in contact with your funders.[xviii]
So helpful. Like my friend Valerie said, I wish I knew some of this shit five years ago.
Kelly Lloyd
[i]Jessica Gaynelle Moss, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 15 September 2021, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jessica-gaynelle-moss.
[ii] Ibid.
[iii]“I also leveraged some of that money to get some more money from Arts Council and you just work it, baby.” Katriona Beales, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/katriona-beales.
[iv] Jessica Gaynelle Moss, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 15 September 2021, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jessica-gaynelle-moss.
[v] Ibid.
[vi] Ibid.
[vii] Dr. Joana Joachim, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 7 September 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/dr-joana-joachim.
[viii] Ibid.
[ix] Ibid.
[x] Ibid.
[xi] Cecilia Wee, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 30 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/cecilia-wee.
[xii] “Working in our industry has become untenable and unsustainable. Our stories are instrumentalised as case studies, we are constantly invited to share our vulnerabilities and pain as examples to bolster institutional agendas. This is an unethical operation and violent precedent. We live with the reality of trauma inflicted by structural racism, which intersects with sexism, class, ableism, gender, sexuality and cisheteropatriarchy in the UK (and global) art world.” In Jade Montserrat, Cecilia Wee, Michelle Williams Gamaker and Tae Ateh, “We need collectivity against structural and institutional racism in the cultural sector “, Arts Professional, accessed on 24 June 2020, https://www.artsprofessional.co.uk/magazine/article/we-need-collectivity-against-structural-and- institutional-racism-cultural-sector.
[xiii] Cecilia Wee, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 30 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/cecilia-wee.
[xiv] Ibid.
[xv]Shannon Stratton, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 4 August 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/shannon-stratton.
[xvi] Kirstine Schiess Højmose, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 27 October 2018, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/archive/kirstine-schiess-hojmose.
[xvii] Katriona Beales, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/katriona-beales.
[xviii] Jessica Gaynelle Moss, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 15 September 2021, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jessica-gaynelle-moss.